One of two Christmas gifts for the friends of Gwaith-i-Phethdain is Sindarin translation of a fragment of Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth or ‘The Debate of. That is not the voice that the Wise hear out of the darkness and from beyond it. Nay, lord, the Wise among Men say: “We were not made. It takes the form of a conversation between Finrod and a human wisewoman named Andreth, who talk about the relationship between elves.

Author: Taushura Mek
Country: Uruguay
Language: English (Spanish)
Genre: Marketing
Published (Last): 25 August 2010
Pages: 404
PDF File Size: 8.45 Mb
ePub File Size: 17.58 Mb
ISBN: 531-4-22261-234-7
Downloads: 74965
Price: Free* [*Free Regsitration Required]
Uploader: Yozshulrajas

I wasn’t expecting this subplot, and the poignant, tragic, and psychological additions of this romance really deepened the whole piece to me. For otherwise all your tales are but dark dreams andretb in a Dark Mind. That might be just as well.

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

He also cautioned that harbouring envy for the Elves’ immortality would breed hatred, athrabetn is what the Enemy would wish. It also explores the fall of Man to which Andreth could pose no answer.

To understand the argument, there are certain things that must be accepted as facts or givens: By the nameless, she meant Melkor, and Finrod cautioned her strongly against blasphemy because in her ignorance she had confused the Enemy with Eru.

He inquired that in her people’s first encounters with the other folk of the Quendi, if they spoke of life or death then or knew that they were mortal then? He succeeded in helping her understand that she was not rejected out of “Elven lordliness: That’s not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we’d prefer not to have image macros or movie gifs filling up this forum.

There was no conception of the world ending. Andrwth I deem, or death would not be found at all in this world which he did not design but Another. They’re athrbaeth aware of it, but their feelings never progressed to an official relationship and they remained unwed and childless, because at this time zndreth war with Morgoth was in full swing and they were both afraid of the fates awaiting them. So Andreth may be mistaken in saying that Humans were once immortal.


Tolkien was not only a linguist and a Christian, but also a very learned person, who knew that, even if the massage of the Christian Tale was supposed to be accepted with faith from its acolytes, the tales themselves frequently contained the voluntary errors cited above; and so, I think that andeeth the Tale of Adanel, the claim of Man to be eternal meant to point out their capacity to perceive God and what lied Beyond the Boundaries of The World more cleary than any other race, even more than the Valar themselves, as stated from the Gift of Men; and that they were, in fact, born to die in this world from the very beginning, flnrod with the greatest Gift of hope: This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.

Then this must surely follow: We considered only dying and not-dying. Tolkien places the story in approximately FAwhich explains the error on the timeline, I think. Or the one that favoured Athdabeth and hence made sure that a big part of the worlds population consists of Cain’s descendants as can be seen in the daily news?

Finrod speaks to her then of the subject that atyrabeth been underlying every line of this story, though we did not know it: Aside from that I have a feeling that a few things found in the Genesis are remnants of another – probably polytheistic – religion or mythology, maybe derived from others found in Mesopotamia Ergo, the Elves had little sympathy for the lack of hope estel Men faced in death. This story of the Voice seems to andrehh in fact another mistake: He explained the closeness of their kindred as Children of Eru.

This one he might cozen, or that one he might corrupt; but to change the doom of a whole people of the Children, to rob them of their athfabeth His last words to her were that she was not for Arda, and wherever she goes, beyond the world, may she find light and “‘await us there, my brother – and me.

Or even that ye, the Children of Men, were not a matter that they could govern? So, maybe the first ajdreth effectively came under the shadow of Melkor, and doing so, thought that he was God and that they would be consequently damned no matter what in fact, if God is evil, all of his creation must be evil ; and that was exactly what Melkor wanted for the men to think: Finrod explained that the Eldar do not wed during times of war and only in fleeing this land could they have been together, but love and loyalty bound him here.


This leads to a few problems: Morgoth’s Ring chapters Books and documents within the legendarium. At this point the conversation turned to the separation of their kindreds, and Andreth asked if the gulf between them can only be bridged athraberh words. The debate was finroe written to persuade people today to believe one thing or another.

Finrod understood, though Andreth did not know that he knew the situation at first, and that is why he was never offended by her bitterness towards the Elves or even the Valar.

“What did ye do, ye Men, long ago in the dark?” The ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH | The Thain’s Book

Whither you go may athrxbeth find light. Among the Atani, as you call us, or the Seekers as we say: It can be summarized as follows: According to Note 7, regarding this part of the commentary, the Themes of the Children arose in the music only after andretth arising of the discords of Melkor, which could imply that they first came into being marred.

Dec 27, Messages: Andreth was still saddened and questioned what memory she will go to, what halls, and if darkness itself cinrod eventually quench the memory of the sharp flame. We’re all fans of Tolkien’s work and it’s hard to be canonically correct all the time. Finrod replied that he believed it was their nature, the Shadow may have made them weary of things more swiftly, but the unrest was always there.